last supper—transcript of IM chat
by Melanie Bettinelli on March 17, 2005
Terri says: I love the last supper, but pictures of it are usually so boring.
Why is it there are so few really amazing pictures of it?
Just because people are struggling to get everyong into the picture, so its too crowded?
Thirteen people gathered at a long table, the table takes up a huge portion of the scene, and the scene can be very boring.
and it rarely actually shows the best moment
found a site with a protestant griping about the eucharist, and talking about the marriage feast at the end of time. he doesn’t see that the eucharist IS the marriage feast of the lamb, we don’t have to wait for it, it is here!
me: I think it is hard to capture the greatness of it in a static form
Then there are the last suppers that try too hard to make it interesting… I recall one that just looked like a big banquet, you could hardly see that it was a last supper
But then how do you convery the mystery of the eucharist in a painting?
I wonder if there would be a way to do something parallel to what The Passion did in cutting between the cross and the last supper? Cause that sort of cuts to the heart of the matter
One reason I like Dali’s is it seems to capture some of that mystical quality.
Terri: it could be hard to do a mystical sort of last supper without seeming hokey.
Terri: http://www.v-art-classic.00server.com/The%20Last%20supper%20600w.jpg
me: That’s an interesting approach, it could work, but I don’t think the artist really gets the eucharistic significance.
Terri: aye
http://www.erasmagazine.com/jesus/galeria/Christ%20-%20Last%20Supper%20-%20Simon%20Dewey.JPG
this one has more of a spiritual feel
Me: it could almost be a picture of emmaus as well
I like that his eyes are closed, I like the warm colors, I like the sense of movement, the crumbs falling, the action of the breaking of the bread
I wonder… the intensity seems possibly because he is alone, however the liturgical and communal aspect is thereby not part of the picture… does it have to be either/or or could a good artist capture both the inner intensity and the communal drama?
terri: no, i bet you could paint him with the same intensity and put the others around him
its such a personal moment
but there are artworks which show intensely personal moments taking place in a crowd
Me: yes. maybe with lighting you could highlight him
terri: the key i think is to try to involve the apostles in that moment without sirupting its intensely personal nature
Me: yes
how to make him part of the group without diminishing that feeling of inner depths
Terri: http://www.hopecommunitybible.com/images/betrayalat%20last%20supper.jpg
Me: This one feels more right, I like the closeness, the lighting, but something is missing. Not sure what, it just doesn’t feel very deep.
terri: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wels.net/wmc/Downloads/206.gif&imgrefurl=http://biblia.com/jesusm/passion.htm&h=894&w=1121&sz=76&tbnid=L6zamHqS3ooJ:&tbnh=119&tbnw=149&start=62&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlast%2Bsupper%26start%3D60%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
this one is interesting
more personal, though not as much as i would like
or there’s a modernist one with the face of jesus in the wine glass looking slightly distraught
Me: I kinda like the chinese, though it doesn’t have much emotional content for me, not sure it would, the style is foreign
the other one has good composition, but hard to get into the woodcut as much, feels colder
hmmm, i wasn’t actually intending the woodcut, but rather an african one
yeah, that. I found it. kinda cool
the bassano looks more like the agape meal St Paul says has got out of hand with too much drinking
terri: aye
Me: and ghirlandaio seems cold and formal. too abstract, not real people eating real food in a real place
t: i don’t like the traditional ones where half the apostles aren’t even paying attention
Me: like that image of the long table with evenly spaced people took over western art
the gay is kinda cool
t: can’t see much in the Gay painting tho
Me: no, but at least it feels like something is happening
t: or where people are leaning physucally away from christ
Me: formal renaissance nonsense
I’m starting to agree with Chesterton, Lewis, Tolkien, the Renaissance people started to loose the meaning in the art
t: yeah. true
Me: fra angelico is cool: http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/angelico/p-angeli18.htm
terri: yeah. it bothers me though that they are all wearing the same color
if there were other people around to differentiate maybe
and in a lot of them, john looks asleep
or ready to faint
the latter is more appropriate, but kind of pulls away
Me: but i like that they are kneeling, very eucharistic
they are at communion
t: not to mention that john almost always looks like a girl
yeah, that in the fra angelico is very cool
Me: and recall colors are symbolic
fra angelico uses red and blue for heaven and earth, I think
t: hmmm
i hadn’t thought of the colors
click on the eucharist and priesthood. it isn’t the last supper, but it is interesting
Me: yeah that is cool
heck out this one, also not last supper: http://www.religion-cults.com/eucharist/
t: i’m wondering, if one showed a bleeding christ at the last supper, is that inappropriate or hokey?
Me: I think it would be cool
I also like this one, rather iconic: http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/s/serra/jaume/lastsupp.html
t: i like that the table there is round
instead of long
makes it feel more like a family than a cold court
Me: yes
and john is almost asleep on jesus’ lap
very family
t: you like the john almost asleep?
it kind of bothered me
Me: like sleeping on daddy’s lap
t: hmmm
i like the tintoretto in that it shows all of heaven gathering to watch suhc an incredible moment, but at the same time it makes it way too busy
Me: I like Dali because it has the crucified christ and also the boats: go out and be fishers of men
t: aye
Me: and they are kneeling
but I don’t like his Christ
blond and girly
t: aye
christ should be manly
and so should john
Me: yes
t: there’s another one that had judas with his back partially turned toward christ. made me very uncomfortable at first, but i think it is supposed to
Me: you’re right tintoretto has a very cool idea, but too busy
t: aye
i found one that is a “black” painting. looks like the homies
http://www.itsablackthang.com/images/Dwight-Ward/last%20Supper.jpg
Me: yeah, that feels like doing it to make a “black Jesus” the artist didn’t have anything else to say about HIM
unlike, say, the black crucifixes dad used to have
poussin was trying to get historical: they’re reclining
did you see this one? http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/h/p-huguet3.htm they look like priests, there’s a lamb on the table, and christ is clearly holding communion chalice and wafer
t: the lamb is a bit scary though
it is crying out
Me: yes, but a cool image
t: aye
http://www.tagnet.org/rousse/gallery/the%20last%20supper.jpg
Me: nice try but a little too much of the cheesy children’s bible for my taste
t: aye
i just feel that so many of them were done only as commissions and have no heart or love in them
the long banquet table that separates rather than brings together
http://www.wels.net/wmc/Downloads/clipart2/Sabc024.gif
this one is kind of cool in the reactions of the people up front
http://www.bethel.edu/~legdon/CulturesAndMethods/images/last%20supper.jpg
look familiar?
http://hometown.aol.com/comp109hu/images/pic%20stained%20glass%20last%20supper.jpg
I like this one especially the upturned face reaching for the eucharist
Me: I like the reactions, but not the cartoonyness
http://www.wels.net/wmc/Downloads/clipart2/Sabc024.gif I like the reactions, but not the cartooniness
http://www.bethel.edu/~legdon/CulturesAndMethods/images/last%20supper.jpg
look familiar?
yay
I like the upturned face, pretty good for stained glass
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